Loading...
12-03-87 Public HearingBOARD M EE T I'N G GUEST SIGN-IN SHEET: (p=ease print) NAME.. AD.DRESS: NOTE: COMPLETION OF THE ABOVE INFOrmATION IS VOLUNTARY AND NOT A PRECONDITION FOR ATTENDANCE. -1- MINUTES OF PUBLIC HEARING ON 12/3/87 FOR THE EMERGENCY RETENTION BASIN (PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION ONLY) Cliff zipp Unfortunately or fortunately the gentleman from Quad Consultants did an excellent job in addressing the list of my concerns. I have nothing of significance to bring up at this time. William Conlon I live at 1406 Black Bart. I'm sure glad to see Andy as the Consultant. Mr. Cofer, how are you doing? I sincerely concur with the last comment (Mr. Zipp). and most specifically the last paragraph of Page 4 of this particular document dealing with the summaries. The fact that the pond is currently serving public interest, today I think is maybe a statement of fact. I do have some questions. It has been real enlightening to be involved with this process from the standpoint of being a ngighbor and being involved with some of the elements. So maybe I can address questions that maybe the consultants would like to answer as we go along here. First of all there was a document initially submitted as evidence, I believe, for the record - could I possibly look at that? Weidman Do you mean the Environmental Assessment, Bill? Conlon I thought there was a different document. Weidman The Preliminary Final Design -2- Conlon Was that available at the E1 Dorado County Public Library? Cofer I don't believe it was. Conlon How would the public get access to that. ~ofer We can make a copy available to you. Hauge The Environmental Assessment was available referenced that document, discussed it. That document was available at the STPUD offices for review. Conlon ' The interesting part here, Andy, is the document I looked at doesn't match the same cover I see here or that one there. Without taking time of the Board to go through the voluminous document I would just like to enter that as a question and maybe reserve some of my comments to the enlightenment of that document and to be able to review it. Dealing with the aspect of the material, I had some questions and most specifically I don't think we're dealing, and especially if you reduce that to a scientific notation, a question of reducing the leakage or the fact the infiltration into the soil. I am questioning that the thought process does near to the neighbors and really the constituancy that is really affected and impacted by this particular maneuver. The aspect -3- of the material, is that around somewhere?, believe me, I'm not an engineer, but I observe the material, and may I ask also has this been used, you said in Corning, is that a residential area? Mason It's agricultural. Conlon Plenty of clearance of a number of things besides residences. This material seems to have an overlapping effect. Is that correct? John Frasier (Ouad) Yes, it is overlapping. Conlon Is there any debris that could be trapped in there? Frasier That is part of the quality control that debris is not trapped in there. There is a rock base that is put down, the dirt is scarified and compacted below, then the material I spoke of as a geomembrane is placed on top of that. So this is directly in contact with no rocks or soil. Of course there is a probability of puncture from rocks, but in design a~d construction that is Conlon When the pond is filled, is the material in contact with this? On top? Frasier The sludge and the water? Conlon Right. -4- Frasier Yes Conlon Would the sludge possibly get'inside here? Frasier The sludge, uh, yes it possibly could get in there. There is a gap, yes. Conolon I would imagine the surface area we're talking about it would be pretty costly to try to sweep that out with some means or flood that out. Frasier That is part of,the washdown. Conlon Chlorination? Frasier (couldn't hear as Conlon was talking over his response) Conlon Is that the chlorination process? Frasier Chlorination of the washdown water helps degrade or oxidize some of the organic material that is in the sludge, but the jetting effect of the washdown would help release the trapped material. Conlon Right, but it's not eliminated, so I'm just curious would there be a possibility of an odor remaining afterwards? -5- Frasier If there is an odor the washdown would be continued until we get all the material out. That odor would probably be pretty small owing to the small amount of material that would be still trapped after washdown. Conlon A question I had, I understand State and the Federal agencies are funding the installation or would propose to support the funding. Who would be paying for the maintenance for this particular project? Cofer The District would be responsible for all operation and mainten- ance. Conlon What is the estimated cost for the maintenancre, Jim? Cofer We do not have a cost estimate on that. We just have the con- struction costs at this time. Conlon O.K. When would that maintenance estimate be available? Cofer We can get one together within a week I would think. Conlon O.K., great. The annual cost of that I think might be important to the Board because that may be for 20 years out of a certain particular venture that you may want to reconsider. The next element I was curious about, Andy, you made a comment that the -6- TRPA has reviewed this, and I definitely got the impression that TRPA, the document I looked at, the Board was scheduled to look at this in November. Is that correct? Haug9 If I could clarify, the staff, those two comments where I said the TRPA has found that - not to be significant - is based on Board action in the past which'is talking about the number of vehicles that can be added. I believe it is 100 vehicles trips per day per commercial building, whatever. The advise was from staff. Conlon The particular document that I looked at seems to have a target date that basically says November 19th Board Public Hearing considering finding of no significant impact amd considering project approval. Has that been done? Hauge The TRPA Board gave, I believe it is now scheduled for the January meeting. Conlon Oh, O.K., so TRPA has not looked at the project as far as the Board level goes? Hauqe The Board has not looked at it. My statement to this Board was related to past actions by the TRPA Board finding that vehicle trips in excess, or vehicle trips of 8, or basically it's 100 or less, is not a significant impact. Conlon O.K., so has the staff looked at this project? -7- Hauge The staff has this project. They are in the staff review process at the present time. Conlon O.K., so the staff hasn't made any comments on this specific project. Is that correct? Hauqe The TRPA staff has made comments, if fact reviewed the preliminary Environmental Assessment. And this Environmental Assesment responds to the comments of the TRPA staff on a preliminary basis only. Conlon They talked about land coverage. I believe that was another comment I picked-up that the TRPA had looked at regarding the mitigation of the excess coverage. What particular Ordinance did they look at to make that determination? Hauqe It is the code regulations of the TRPA that provides for Public Utilities that there is a mitigation fee that can be paid in lieu of acquiring additional land coverage. And in meeting with the TRPA staff, they were the ones who. amd I don't have a section number, Bill, but there are for them. Conlon I guess my question is, isn't that the temporary ordinance and haven't they just passed an ordinance after the date of your report? Hauge I was in contact with TRPA staff as of two weeks ago and that is still the case. -8- Conlon I appreciate that. It clarifies a number of questions. So, therefore, the TRPA has said they have a current ordinance that allows the land coverage on this particular project and they find it tolerable with mitigation fee. Have they stated the mitigation fee? Hauge They have stated a brief fee - it is an estimate. Cofer It has to be recomputed based on the actual over coverage. That hasn't been done yet. A formula (Conlon broke in) Conlon Is that, Jim, the coverage formula of the land banking technical permit (?) ? Cofer I'm not sure that's the formula. They have quoted to us the formula that they will compute the mitigation fees for over-coverage. Conlon But they don't know the land coverage, right? Cofer It's being computed now. Hauqe We did land coverage for the site, which again, we took as a gross land coverage, again stating a worst-case land coverage and this analysis was based on that worst-case, assuming there was more coverage and there most likely is. The STPUD has now flown that and is in the process of doing specific land coverage calculations on that site. -9- Conlon O.K., because I received a document, matter of fact just yesterday, indicating TRPA was studying the land capability, not only in the exchange, but also in this area. So, I'm a little puzzled how they could determine, without knowing the capability, how they could determine the mitigation, to really know what the excess coverage is because it's all based on what the land capability is; and that formula is predicated on land capability. Which , as of yesterday, no one seemed to know what it was. Hauge The land capabilities are addressed in this document. It is land primarily land capability there. Some land capability lA, and some land capability 6. I was not aware that the TRPA was doing a land capability. Cofer They're doing it on the Johnson property, not on this project. Conlon So they're convinced that this property they already know the capability? Cofer Yes, I think they're satisfied with their own charts; with their own maps. Sinclair I have a question, Bill. How they address the mitigation fee per say. I know how they did it on our project, but how do they propose to assess this and what kind of mitigation fee are they looking at? And who is going to pay it? -10- corer We would have to pay it. Under $5,000 was our early estimate that they had computed. Sinclair O.K., I think that should be pinned down. I hate to use comparisons but the mitigation fee that I have on my project which totaled 4.33 acres is $252,000 and it looks like selective enforcement to me. Cofer I wouldn't volunteer that we pay on the same basis. Sinclair I would hope not. Conlon You're absolutely right - that's something that needs to be documented. The question I have, again, dealing with the residences concern and peoples side of this issue, is I haven't heard any discussion about any consideration for a bladder or anything that would reduce the ongoing maintenance costs. I am not an engineer or don't profess to have experts. We have experts right here that I think are highly qualified people. My question is, amongst reasonable people, are we consideriing all the alternatives? The aspect of washing down an area in which the heat temperatures - I have no idea the black surface - is there any estimate what would be the surface of this on a normal Tahoe, 6,200 ft., day, outside temperature about 87 degrees? Frasier I don't have an estimate of what the heat would be, but it heats up and becomes slightly pliable. -11- Conlon Well, also, wouldn't it radiate air? Frasier Yes. Conlon And wouldn't water be taken off that surface into the air? ~rasier That's again part of the washdown, target of the washdown, get the sludge out of the basin after using it. Conlon Well if you weren't using it I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem, but I'm definitely convinced by this document that South Lake Tahoe Public Utility District is convinced that.we need to use this pond. And, therefore, if it's going to be used and constantly washed down, and it doesn't seem like a very simple process, it seems to be an ongoing maintenance consideration and I question that, not because it wouldn't be used in an area amd stop the penetration of the soil, but what it will create as far as a very pugnet odor throughout the community. And knowing the airfoil that comes through that mountain range and through the meadow I can see that being carried a greater distance than any 300 feet. The other thing I was curious, that maybe John could help me, John when you said that closing yesterday was the date for the comments. Was that from the public? Hauge That is the circulation period pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act - there's a 30 day circulation and -12- Conlon For the responsible Agencies? Hauqe The responsible and also for the public. Now, your making comments tonight comments tonight, but the intent is to close that before this Board reviews a Negative Declaration and its consideration for certification. ~onlon O.K. The reason I ask you, Andy, is that letters have been delivered to TRPA which I understood to be a responsible agent for receipt. I got that information from reading this or actually a replica of this because the print was different in the document I looked at and it was identified to be various agencies I could send comments to. But I did bring a letter that I would like to just very briefly maybe summarize and I have copies for the Board so that they can look at it at their leisure. This particular letter is hand carried and dated today for Mr. Cofer and it's addressed to him which I'll be delivering it to him. Basically, first paragraph (Conlon read letter - please refer to letter) He commented: What I'm saying is, I recognize there's a problem, I recognize environmentally we must stop the penetration, I really appreciate the energy and the con- sideration of everybody, most specifically the Board members have gone through to analyze this problem. My question is, whether or not it's advisible to talking about Federal and State funding and to be negligent, in my opinion, in avoiding a full investigation of the environmental impact, which would be provided by an EIR. Further, the first and foremost question is -13- the issue under Temporary Permit which is what the formal document was, the initial permit issued by the Forest Service and I see in this document the word "emergency". I think there's a distinction of the two and moving it from a "temporary" facility to anything that construes anything other than "temporary" as this document seems to highlight a continued use becomes mandatory for an Environmental Impact Report, at least in my opinion. Furthermore, in regards to the initiation of the mitigation measures have been identified but solely for the purpose of convenience. It is noted on Page 2 of the introductory comments that there are considerable air quality and land use damages that will not be mitigated. Further, the report is negligent in identifying leakage through the pipeline or the retention pond to the pipeline area on the other side of Black Bart. Most notably the "bump" that occurs during the winter. It's not there in the summer but it occurs in the winter. I have been advised by particular experts of Government Agencies that is due to a freezing effect and that appears to be the only soil - moisture coming from the pond. I don't see that addressed in the report. It may not have been within the scope, as I say, I have a great deal of appreciation for Andy, I'm only taking issue with subjects that I personally question. And maybe I'm not educated well enough. Mason Where is that one, Bill? Conlon There is a yellow sign that says, "BUMP". -14- Cofer There is a performated road drainage right by the Pond. winter it heaves. Jones Every But that has nothing to do with our Pond. The County - it's drainage from the County road. Olson What he is suggesting, it does come from the Pond. Is that right, Bill? Conlon What I'm suggesting, there is a pipeline used for removal of the material from the Pond back into Cofer No, it's a road drainage perforation pipe. Conlon Thank you, that clarifies some. I appreciate that. (Continues to read letter - first paragraph, Page 2) In other words, what I'm saying here (about air qualilty) is that through the 6 week, I believe is the proposed construction period. Has that been revised in any way? Cofer I don't believe so. Conlon We~are taking a project which I understand will start some time after May 15th, most likely in June, in which temperatures start to rise in which we start to remove and disturb material that has been there 10 to 15 years that contains bacteria, I'm sure, and will start a process of removing that bacteria from material -15- where it's burried into the air, right next to one of the second most traveled roads of our visitors into Tahoe. With probably one of the most pleasant odors they've ever experienced. The other paragraph that I would like to highlight (Conlon read the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph , Page 2) - 6 weeks as I've indicated. The use of this area and the intensifying of the traffic is going to negative and, again, I reiterate I believe it should be studied from a full EIR perspective. It should be noted that sewage process will continue to be utilized at the facility, not temporary, but as an emergency continuation pond - with what I loosely calculated to be about an 8 day opening __. The report fails to identify the electrtical consumption. It does not identify any research dealing with the quality or capability of the aerator regarding peak-load periods. But it is going to incur greater electrical usage and there is no measurable cost at this time. Is that correct? That's from the report. Cofer For the washdown water, which will have to be retreated, will require more energy, yes. Conlon Do we know what the cost will be on that? Corer No. Conlon (Conlon continued to read from the letter, last paragraph, Page 2 - identify the need), and this probably hits home to a lot of -16- people because you probably appreciate this better than I. (the need of a fifty-six etc.) (Reading continued, top of Page 3 - behalf of the STPUD) now this is where we have the contention, that 10% of the time raw sewage has been stored in this facility. The reason I think it is a contention, is I read here a denial that any raw sewage has ever been placed in the pond, and I beg you to understand by ignorance. I'm understanding What it the difference, that its really primary treated. Mr. Cofer. Cofer Primary treatment - its gone through the first treatment process and 30 or 40 percent of the solids have been removed. Conlon That means about 60% of the solids are still in it. Cofer It's been chlorinated, yes. Primary treatment is what many districts are discharging to the ocean. Conlon Well I know, but we're not in the ocean and we've got people who are a few feet from the pond and we've got 60% solids - I'm sorry, but I classify that as "raw" sewage. (Conlon continued reading letter - 2nd Paragraph, Page 3 - admitted degration) I have that in writing. (As a matter of -- is irreversible) this is contradiction to the report itself. What I'm really saying is the damage has been done. Nobody seems to want the pond. It started out as a temporary program in the early 1960's. Because of the environmental damage, it has now become an issue - who is going to wind up with it, and nobody seems to want it at this -17- point in time, but the STPUD. (Conlon reads Paragraph 3, Page 3 - to be added to the water) and I understand that to be a rate of 1,200 lbs. of chlorine substance per day. No discussion is taking place within the environmental impact of chlorine gas, the possibility of chlorine gas or the emission of toxic substances in the air. Which, obviously, Lahontan is not concerned about air quality. Their job is water quality. (One should definitely ...... .) (4th Paragraph, Page 3 - lining of the pond.) Alternatives have not been considered, not in the case of substance, but in the case of local residences. It fails to identify all the environmental concerns that ~ think should be treated. I thank the Board for their time and I have a copy of the same letter I just gave Mr. Cofer for each one of you. Weidman Does this letter get all the concerns you addressed today, here? Conlon For the most part, I probably, knowing myself, probably elaborated in a few areas, but. Weidman And I didn't get, before you got the leakage in the pipeline - what was the concern you expressed, I didn't get it in my notes. Conlon The concern I had there was the "temporary" versus the "emergency" use. I believe I indicated that there has a been a change in use, I think admittedly by all parties. -18- Sinclair Bill, I have a question of you, we're in the same boat except we're only a mile away from this holding tank and we've experienced a problem'regularly, not just the last two years, its been going on probably as least 6 or 8 years. Short of closing down the operation or forfeiting the grant, do you have an area you might consider compromising at least in getting the liner in there? Conlon I have two points. First, I'm convinced that something has to be done now from an emergency standpoint - and I agree with you. I think we are all in concert with that. Your question as to the plan of what are we stuck with, are we stuck with a 20 year maintenance program, and when I start thinking of ultraviolet light at a higher altitude versus what appears to be a lower altitude, I consider all the elements, I'm considering a tremendous increase in maintenance. I'm the payer of that, so are you, and I think we all have a common area there. Because that's just going to come back in rates. Thirdly, we can talk about a number of things, but the question is: have we concerned ourselves with the neighbors? Those neighbors, sure they vote, but they're also people that live there with their kids in a neighborhood they developed under the pretense that this was going to be a temporary pond. And if anybody wishes to visit my file of newspaper articles and public documents, So. Lake Tahoe PUD minutes, quotations from many people, including Mr. Ledbetter, this goes on, it was considered to be a temporary need. I think the District is at a problem right now. I think -19- as a neighborhood we agree that that's a problem - we need to share them. As far as this pond continuing to become a bigger nuisance, I think we're opposed to that. That nuisance being one of an ongoing effect. Mason Thank you, Bill. I just want to bring up one point and that is this District started to do the innovations and tried to take care of something like this 10 years ago and its been stalled all the way along the line and now we're finally getting to the point where something is being done and we're trying to take care of this. Conlon Maybe I'm wrong,and this might be a little bit off the subject, but it's my understanding that the STPUD does not have a long range plan for its operations or its financial requirements. Is that correct. Cofer Long range plans for what? I'm sorry, I missed your question. Conlon In regards to the District's operation, and understanding all the emergencies that pop up everywhere, that the District does not have a long range, and long range in the term of 10 to 30 year program for the financial or service needs. Cofer We've had a master plan since 1978. We've been prohibited from implementing that because of regulatory agencies. They've only allowed us to modify the plant, not to expand it. So we've gotten that far. We are now putting together the plan for'the expansion. -20- Conlon Is the retention of this pond part of the expansion? Cofer No, its not. Conlon Do you see in your own professional engineering background a need for this pond 5 to 10 years from now? Cofer Yes. Conlon 20 years from now? Cofer Yes. Walker I have a question. There is a probem here. Do you have an answer to it? Conlon I would like to look into the aspect of a bladder system. I think there is some type of mechanism of that nature that must be available in that general area. That would seem to be one element (changed tapes) anything I've read and has become relatively investigated here of what's been in the background. If there has been discussion and it has been discarded, fine. I just need to know about it. Jones You were privileged to some of the meetings that were carried on at the beginning and I was at some of those meetings. And many of those types of things like bladders, and covering the pond -21- were eliminated because of - several reasons - cost, the bladder would be difficult to clean-out, there were several reasons that we finalized on just lining the pond. Costs were figured and I think they were all approximately the same, weren't they, for long term maintenance. I know I've seen those figures and the cost for maintaining the liner was in the same area or even less than things like concrete and so forth. A lot of those things have been covered, Conlon Like I said, I don't profess to know it all. I'm not here as an expert in any way. Sinclair Expanding on your question, this water and the possibility that solids catching in that liner there. Have you addresed the 24 hour of water system circulating the water within that pond? Frasier Yes. Sinclair How do you propose to do it? Frasier Currently the District operates the pond by pumping into the pond. just at they would be storing, except they don't pump in stored wastewater. They pump in chlorinated affluent. And what could be referred to as super chlorinated affluent, because the normal chlorinated affluent may have 10 parts per million where what we pump up there may have 50 or more parts per million to help circulate the water in the pond and reduce the odor - basically an oxidation technique for the organic material that -22- is in the pond. operation. Sinclair I'm wondering what's going to happen when the Community College opens. I think there has to be a plan for paddles or something to move this rather than relying on the water coming in. Frasier Our opinion would be - we did not want to add an aeration system in the pond. We could permanent floating aerators. The problem with that is if you add aerators and don't add enough capacity, basically you're not doing anything. You're not meeting the goal of supplying enough oxygen and then you have the idea that you're moving this pond from a retention basin for emergencies to more of a treatment system where you're adding oxygen. That is why we stayed away from adding a permanent aerator, floating aerator with paddles. Cofer We have an aerator in the pond now and because the pond is so shallow, all it did was stir up the sludge on the bottom and make it worse. We turned it off. Sinclair Have you considered an alternate site like up the mountain quite a ways, up Luther Pass? Cofer We had an earlier study done by Culp/Wesner/Culp that looked at alternate sites including all the way out to the dump site and the costs were horrendous. For those remote sites you have to And that is proposed to continue as part of the -23- build a pipeline to them, a pump station to bring the water back and every place we looked there were homes nearby. You just move it to another community. Conlon I think in summary, are there any more questions? Hauge I need some clarifications. Mason Andy, could that be done after or do you need that in the public? Hauqe You mean after the Public Hearing? Mason Yes. Hauge I really prefer to do it now as things need to be clarified as Bill is stating an EIR is required on this project. Mason Go right ahead. Hauge I'm going to summarize what I think you heard. On Air Quality - you're saying air quality has been inadequately addressed regarding chlorine gas, bacteria during the removal of the sludge and the heat on the liner causing odors. For the alternatives Conlon Can we just hold it there for a second. inadequate. You said I said it was I think it points out in the document certain -24- elements dealing with sludge removal and the admission from interviewing staff that would be continued odor through the summer during the construction period and I believe the report states that there will be continued odor after the installation of the liner. Hauqe That's correct. Now what has given that, though, what the EA has identified that as an impact, what you're claiming - there is something that has not been identified, and I'm asking what has not been identified. Conlon The elements in the air that are given off, there is a disturb- ance and the consideration of the chemical chlorination that will be sitting there in that pond when, I guess you call it flooded, I mean during the washdown. Hauge During the washdown, all right. On the alternatives, you feel a that a bladder should (couldn't hear rest of Sentence). Conlon Believe me, I'm not presumptious to think I have the answers. What I'm saying is it would appear to me a bladder approach may have other considerations for the residence that this does not have. Hauge Are there other alternatives that need to be considered that you're aware of? Conlon Other alternatives to what? To the liner itself? -25- Hauge To this project. Conlon The related costs. I'm not sure this report addressed the costs, is that right. The only cost element is Mitigation. Hauqe Well actually the Environmental Assessment does not address costs at all. Conlon Well it said $80 in here for Mitigation fees. Hauge Well as far as Mitigation, true. But that's an alternative that you want specifically considered - a bladder, it that correct? Conlon No. Hauge It's not. Conlon I'm asking for an alternative that is more responsive to the air quality of odor which is defined by the Lahontan Board and the California Air Quality Standards Board - a nuisance is a pungent odor. Why go into that cycle of filing petitions and Board hearings if we're going get to get into pungent odor situations. You're not assuring me that there won't be any pungent odors. Is that correct? Hauge That's correct. -26- Conlon Is it not true that report is going to identify a continued odor? Hauq~ That's correct, a potential for continued odor. Conlon Is that potential a potential for a pungent odor? Offensive odor? Hauge That is a qualification that - it has potential for sulfite. Conlon I know what that smells like it anyone's had chemistry. Rotten eggs. Hauge The other, you mentioned the traffic is going to be intensified. Conlon During the business cycle of the summer, June and July, I understand would be somewhat the period when construction is being conducted and the sludge. It is my understanding the sludge is to be removed and dried on the spot and then removed from the area. Is that correct? Hauqe That's correct. Conlon O.K. While it's drying it's going to evaporate. That's pretty basic. I just want to be sure I'm there. It evaporates, the air and moisture while it is evaporating is going into the air. -27- Hauge That's correct. Conlon It's carrying with it its properties. Properties: chemical, bacteria, and odor. I see no treatment in the EIR dealing with any bacterial formations that have been there. Any testing for them or any area of Hauqe You have to understand that air quality issue to be addressed. But you made a statement regarding traffic, though. And made a statement of giving an AET of 4,589 vehicles per day right now. During construction somewhere around 20 vehicle trips, 30 vehicle trips, we consider that not to be a significant impact on that system. Conlon What did you say the traffic count would be during the month of June? Hauqe Average, maybe traffic is 4,500 per day. Conlon That's year-round, though - right? That average? Hauge That average is year-round. Conlon Isn't that average a little higher during the summer period when visitors are here? -28- Hauqe I don't know that, that could be an assumption that could be made. Conlon O.K. If that happens to a thoroughfare going to the Stateline casinos and there seems to be another proposal that supports that with TRPA and a traffic problem. I as a person would conclude that there's more traffic going through there during the time of disturbance and therefore it is a way of greeting, what I consider to be, our customer - with a very pungent odor and I'm looking at the question that it seems to be the recom- mendation of this report to let the substance dry on the spot for a number of weeks, allowing visitors to drive through that. Let alone what the community is going to put up with. I'm just incorporating people into the environment. Hauge I'm trying to be clear on what you feel this document has inadequately addressed as far as your concerned. So we can respond to you. Are there any - those are the comments I have heard from your comments that need to be addressed. Basically the air quality isssues, the alternatives issue, and traffic summmer peak load. Are there other issues that I did not. Conlon I don't have the letter in front of me, but I think you can just refer to a copy of that. -29- Mason Bill, just another statement. As short term goals, you know we are considering, and hopefully we're going to be building a 19 million gallon holding at the plant. So with the added reliabil- ity of our modifications to the plant we are hoping the eventual- ity of going to the 60 million is going to be very small. Conlon Well I saw that in the report and I was encouraged by it. But the questions kept popping up in my mind - where and how is this going to be funded - or when and how is it going to be funded. Mason We had hoped we would get grant money for that before we had to do the 60 million, but Lahontan said, "No", they want the 60 million done first, and we may get loan monies, very low interest loan monies the following year. Cofer That project is on the state's 1989 loan priority list. Conlon What will be cost of that project? Cofer About $2.5 Million dollars. Conlon Now would that be - well, I guess my question: location of that pond? Mason At the plant site. forth. What is the We could save electricity pumping back and -30- Conlon It could be designed in a way for low maintenance. Mason We would have gravity feed-back. Conlon Well, that's encouraging. Mason Those things are in the plans. Jones We still have to go ahead with this. Mason We've got to get this done before our grant money runs out next October. Cofer We have to award all contracts by September 1, 1988. At that time the grants program stops. Conlon What I heard, I think I've got clarity but I'd like to make sure I understand it for the public record. The transfer of fee interest to the Forest Service in exchange that has been discussed is being viewed upon by TRPA, the Forest Service and STPUD - is the funding that we're speaking of for this particular liner project predicated on the fee title in that area. Mason Yes. In order to get the grant we have to have that. -31- Conlon Is it possible I could get a copy of that requirement? Not now, but just for my records? I just think in the summary I think we're all stuck with the same problem. That's clear. How to handle it, reasonable people will differ. The question, I think, deals with promises made in the 60's and carried forward on those on different reasons, different rationales - and now we're at a point where I think the essence of it is - it may be foolish for all of us to ignore the protection and the assist- ance of a full Invironmental Impact Report. Thank you. Mason Thank you, Bill. Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to say a few words? Yes, please come forward. Anything new that you have to add, we would be glad to listen to. Lou Pierini A local resident, for a while close by the sewer plant on Chinquapin. I have one technical question - the land transfer question is that I was going to ask is what happens to our investment if the Forest Service did, if the land transfer did not take place and they decided to restore the parcel in ques- tion? No. 2 - When they just said the 18 Milion gallon storage additional facility that might be built, its going to be at the plant site - is that in the enclosed cyclone boundaries of the plant now? Cofer No. It's proposed to be directly adjacent to the northern boundary. -32- Pierini And one of the technical questions on the capacity of retention basin being at 57 Million gallons. Am I correct? Would the proposed levee going in the middle, would that reduce any capacity? Mason That is the reduction. Excuse me - go ahead - John. Frasier Let me address that. The way this is constructed will be with a cut and fill balance and that is one of the land transfer things - there will be no dirt imported. All the dirt to build the levee will be cut from the bottom of one side of the basin approximately 1/2 foot to a maxium of a foot depth to construct this center levee. Therefore no volume or capacity will-be lost for whatever you loose in building the levee you gain by the cut balance. Pierini I wasn't sure on that, I was just wondering how - I assumed the capacity is staying the same. Frasier The capacity is increasing - right now it is estimated slightly over 56 million gallons. It will increase to 57 million gallons due to the need for sloping the bottom at 1% slope. That requires a small amount of excavation to · Pierini Thanks. I just want to concur with everything that the state- ment before me said and just that I think we need guarantees and warrantees on - if this project is constructed to guarantee that -33- there's not another pipeline and the problems we've had pumping this sewage over Luther Pass. That will do it for me. Thank you very much. Mason Do you want an answer, or can we get an answer to that first question he had? Cofer I'm sorry, which one was that? Oh, yes. The (Pierini interupted) Pierini The Land Transfer. If the land transfer doesn't take place, or the Forest Service revokes your permit, what happens to our investment? Weidman Well then, we get off the property. Generally the Forest Service doesn't revoke the permit. The background of the first permit was that it had more than just the holding pond. It had some spray irrigation areas and that was the primary concern of the Forest Service at that time. That area was right above what is now Pioneer Trail and above the holding pond. I've been on that many times when we where we were putting secondary effluent. That's where the Forest Service wanted us out and they wanted us exporting and not irrigating the effluent on the land. That's why the original permit was 5 years - it was dealing primarily with the effluent irrigation on the land. That's my understanding - I was here at the time. -34- Pierini I've reviewed all of those documents and the Forest Service original lease, but that issue. Jones Yeah, they've changed that. Pierine They have changed that. O.K. Thank you very much. Jones I've got just one quick question here. Your last comment was something abut another pipeline? Pierini Well we don't want to run - the problems of maintenance at Luther Pump Station pipe line that we've run into over the years. Seems like they've contributed to an enormous costs - after it was originally built has it been no maintenance required since then or Jones Well there's been maintenance (Pierini interrupted) Pierini In other words, I just don't want another pipeline. Jones Oh, another similar situation? another pipeline or something. Mason Anyone else like to be heard? Yes. Malcolm Prible My name is Malcolm Prible, 1389 Chinquapin - a neighbor. the questions was: last, this liner? I thought you were referring to One of what was the estimated length that this would -35- Frasier 20 years - is the estimated liner life. We have no reason to believe it won't last beyond 20 years. Jones That's for the liner itself, right? Hauqe For the liner itself. Prible For a total cost that's not looking at a replacement in 20 years or anything like that. And if we're lucky - usage is reduced and so it will last even longer. Is that a fair assumption? Frasier That's a fair assumption. Prible O.K. Landscaping's been discussed. Is that part of this budget already, too? Cofer I believe so. Prible I don't know if that was touched on. Cofer Yes, we will have to do landscaping on the project. Prible On the project there'll be - outside the fence, trees corer Safety of Dams will probably not allow any trees to be constructed on the dykes. We will be looking along Black Bart Avenue for landscaping, yes. Prible Ail right. -36- On this transporation question, I think of only one additional that you're looking at, Andy? When Cal/Trans is doing work in June and July, local traffic on Black Bart gets gigantic sometimes. So that's an extra factor in there that I'm not sure averages are the only thing you can count on, because it's July and August when we can't even get home sometimes. The new pond for 1989, 1991, I'm trying to bring that into perspec- tive also in that - in the ideal solution of the millions you can spend on it - has it not had this odor problem? I'm thinking about the College, I'm also thinking about the whole area again. Would that be another pond that's going to put out odors? But again, idealy use it first, and quicker - it's not there as long? Cofer It's right next to plant where we can drain it quickly and it will have a washdown system also. Prible Is it to be a cement pond, is it to be the same sort of lined pond?: Cofer That hasn't been decided. It would probably be a similar liner. Prible In other words that is sort of the state of art? Cofer We think it is the best choice in a liner, yes. Prible If I may, along the ideas of environmental noise, and some of your staff has been very nice to me already and answered some of -37- these questions. But one neighbor I spoke with today was bringing up this motor noise that is still going on. Cofer The furnace. Prible I understand there is a solution to that and is that proceeding? Mason That is not a part of today's discussion. Cofer It is on hold because the County Air Quality Board has to review what we propose to do. But we do have a plan for solving that. Prible O.K. I know that's another neighborhood not just my area but further toward Trout Creek that is hearing than noise. Mason That is being worked upon. Prible The Forest Service question was answered for me. I think about the only other comment I would like to make and again I made this to staff because I've called some people I know there and they're very helpful because we got really concerned this last August with what's really happening. I appreciate the letter that goes out, the notification, the times when something's been hung on the door when they are doing something. But I think this issue shows that maybe within staff there's not a specific public relations person where all these questions start to get fielded by the same one or i.e. in the letter if, earlier, even this preliminary information that's in this blue sheet today was disseminated, I think some of our reactions might have been a -38- little bit different. Worrying about which Forest Service was going to go. We're thinking "Oh, Oh" permanent decision is being made, we havn't had a chance - so we're trying to tell Forest Service - don't do anything. Maybe that was off-base. But it's the dialog that didn't occur, i.e. newspaper, radio, we all know a lot about what it takes to do public relations so that's my challenge. Is that within the entire STPUD that something can be done that can communicate to people. I even go so far as an old suggestion - this might even sound silly. Saving water, the old brick in the tank is a good idea. I'm well aware from previous studies of how many people are in town in July and August. We used to study this with tourism I was involved with. Would we be better off if this whole town had a compaign to do that and therefore the millions of gallons you get in July would be reduced or is it so small that it's.a silly suggestion or are there other ideas like that that can help this factory not have to use the oveflow permanent emergency pond? Mason O.K. Let me address a couple of statements. First of all we recognize the public information problem that we've had and have not addressed prior to and we now have a standing committee of two people who will be our public information officers and they will be getting out information on a regular basis. So we are trying to attack that problem. The other part of it - we do have water conservation measures that we have taken over the last couple of years. In fact, Rick back there, still has some kits left. Rick? Rick Hydrick Yes. -39- Mason We have shower head kits, we have toilet kits which are available to the public for a very nominal cost. Cofer They're better that bricks. Mason So, we do have those things, but again, public information has been perhaps a little slow but we're trying to overcome that, too. Prible Well my point is even tying those two things together - making that kit say something that is valuable to help in the odor that may still occur and rentals and motels and all the other areas that maybe could even be pushed a little into using those things. Thank you. Mason Thank you. Anyone else? Yes. Jim Lasher I bought a home directly across Black Bart from the tank, holding pond. I bought that home in 75. That was well before this fence and the dam and pumping system was put in. What I've seen over the years, when I originally bought it, there wasn't much of a stench from it until the effluent or water was pumped out and the residue on the bottom and dying vegetation rotted. Now, over the past few years that tank has been used quite a bit more and I guess it's because of construction at the plant. Mason And reliability of the plant. -40- Lasher O.K. But, the odor has increased quite a bit and not just in the drying out process, but in the actual sewage or whatever treatment level that goes in there. I think some of it has to be very slightly treated because a couple of times there's been quite a stench off it. Now, one question I do have - is all the sewage that's going in there - is that in compliance with the Permit with the Forest Service. Mason Yes. Lasher Does that permit, doesn't it designate what type of sewage will go in there? Weidman It does, it says tertiary. Tertiary treated effluent would go in there. From a practical matter when you have breakdowns in the tertiary system, you have to put secondary, and when you have breakdowns in the secondary, you have to put primary. We acknowledge that in this report. The benefit I see from the construction that you can suffer with more odor for the last couple of years, is that we will have redundency or back-up systems amd we will not have to use the plant so much for the secondary system and we won't have any tertiary treatment so there won't be any breakdowns there. So the pond should be used less after the new plant is on - the rehabilitation is on line. Which should decrease the total amount of odor that comes out of it. -41- Lasher The biggest problem I have is, I knew there was a tank there when I bought the house, but I had no experience with the odor and I really didn't see it until the 80's. But I think if you're not planning on doing some kind of covered system, some kind of an enclosed system, but you're going to put your new tank on site at the plant or adjacent to the plant. You're still going to end up with an odor problem somewhere else along the line. I think you should be going in the direction of having some system for containing the gases, the odors. In the report is there any, does it look at the water fowl that transit that area? I have no idea what they do as far a picking up bacteria or transfering it over to Lake Christopher - because I know they fly back and forth across from Lake Christopher to the pond there, only primary treatment sewage. Cofer I don't know if we've address that or not. Lasher Talked about irreversible affects. One irreversible effect I do see is financial. That's been going on ever since I've owned that property. It's just more money going into that system instead of going to something else. Something that contains the gases. Bill Conlon brought up something about that bump on the road there. I did look into that and was told there was basically a french drain, a drainage system for the old water sytem, I believe it belonged to someone down in the Bijou area? Cofer Not that we're aware of, no. -42- Lasher There are a lot of dykes, places for transportation of water through there? Cofer The Johnson's used to have an irrigation system through there, but I'm not aware that drain is part of their . Lasher I'm not sure what it is, but that has been there a long time, not just installed recently. Cofer No, that has been there before the pond . Lasher Has anyone addressed the situation, to see if it occurred in the 80's now that the pond is being used more - is the seepage from the pond? Cofer Lahontan raised the issue several years ago and I think they satisfied themselves - it was not related to the pond. It was related to surface drainage through that perforated pipe. Lasher Well, through the 70's there was no problem. Cofer I've seen it (the bump) when the pond was dry - heave up in the winter time so I think it is from surface drainage. As long as you have a perforated pipe you're going to get some heave. Lasher How do you explain the fact that it didn't occur in the summers. -43- Cofer I've been here since '76 and it's been doing it ever since I've been here. Jones I think it really was the worst in the early '80's when we had the heavy winters - 81 82, and 83. I don't remember having anything like that in the mid seventies when it was basically a drought period - much drier. Lasher O.K. The only other thing I had - about landscaping. Of course I don't know what landscaping you're planning but if you land- scape directly adjacent to the road you're going to increase the ice situation on that road also. The more shade you put on the road the more ice is there. But my basic concern is that you're just going to put more money into open sewage which doesn't overcome the problem. Cofer If we put it in a closed storage vessel, we would still have to vent the gases. You could run those through some sort of a scrubber in an attempt to improve it, but the problem we found in looking at closed vessels was you still have to clean the sludge and the only way you can clean sludge is to open up the vessel. So we would still have the problem, we think. We think the best answer is to as quickly as you can - wash it down, get that sludge out of there, not to let it accumulate - which it probably would in a closed vessel. Lasher What's the longest time it's taken to pump out that pond? -44- Cofer We can bring the water back at close to a million gallons a day. So it could take close to 60 days. Lasher So you've had it up to? Cofer We've had it full. In 1983 it was full. Lasher O.k. Thank you. Mason Thank you, Mr. Lasher. Anyone else? (Mason continued Public Hearing until December 17, 1987)